The US declassified the conversation where Putin convinced Bush that Ukraine was an “artificial” state

Vladimir Putin, photo: getty images

The United States published several transcripts of conversations between Russian President Vladimir Putin and the then US President George W. Bush, where Putin convinced that Ukraine is an “artificial” state with a fragmented society and warned of a “long-term confrontation” with the West in the event of Ukraine’s admission to NATO.

Source: European Truth, the transcripts were released by the National Security Archive, a non-governmental think tank, after winning a lawsuit over it

Details: In a conversation dated June 16, 2001, Putin talks about his disappointment with the changes after the collapse of the USSR, in a segment about the fact that “there should be honesty” in relations and that he “feels the mood” of Russian society well.

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Verbatim transcript of Putin’s words: “What really happened? The Soviet goodwill of the USSR changed the world, voluntarily. Russia voluntarily gave up thousands of square meters of territory. This is something unheard of. They gave Ukraine, which was part of Russia for centuries. They gave Kazakhstan. They also gave the Caucasus. It is hard to imagine, and the party bosses did it.”

The conversation from April 6, 2008 contains a fragment where Putin tells Bush his thoughts about Ukraine as an “artificial state” and declares that its accession to NATO is absolutely unacceptable for Moscow.

“This will not be something new for you (…), but I want to emphasize that the accession of a country like Ukraine to NATO will in the long run create a field of conflict between you and us, a long-term confrontation,” Putin said.

To Bush’s clarifying question, he talks about Ukraine as an “artificially created country” with a highly fragmented society.

“17 million Russians live in Ukraine, which is a third of the population. Ukraine is a very complex country. It is not a state that arose in a natural way. It is an artificial country created in Soviet times. After the Second World War, Ukraine received territories from Poland, Romania and Hungary – this is the greater part of western Ukraine. In 1920-1930, Ukraine received territories from Russia – this is the eastern part of the country. In 1956, Ukraine was transferred The Crimean peninsula… People with very different views live there. You can find villages where they only speak Hungarian and people wear their hats. In the east, people wear suits, ties and big hats. The majority of the Ukrainian population perceives NATO as an enemy organization.

From there, he goes on to explain that Ukraine’s potential accession to NATO will create problems for Russia.

“This creates the threat of the appearance of military bases and the deployment of new weapons systems near Russia. This creates uncertainty and threats for us. Russia, relying on anti-NATO forces in Ukraine, will work to deprive NATO of the possibility of expansion. Russia will constantly create problems there. So why is this? Why Ukraine’s membership in NATO, what is the benefit of this for NATO and the USA? There can only be one reason for this, and that is to consolidate the status of Ukraine as part of the Western world, this is probably the logic. I do not think that it is correct logic (…) And given the differences of opinion regarding NATO membership, the country will simply fall apart. I have always said that there is a certain pro-Western part and a certain pro-Russian part,” argues Putin, adding that the political life of Ukraine reflects these contradictions, and the pro-Western forces that came to power after the Orange Revolution “immediately fell out with each other.”

“There is a question not about joining NATO, but about ensuring Ukraine’s self-sufficiency. And we also need to strengthen their economy,” he says.

We will remind, on December 24, the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyi revealed the content of the “peace plan” for the first time of 20 points agreed with the USA.

Zelenskyi also emphasized that Ukraine does not go on demand about the rejection of NATO membership, which was in the initial plan of the Trump team of 28 points.

Signals came from Moscow that Russia will require significant changes to the draft “peace plan” agreed between Ukraine and the USA.