Svyatoslav “Kalina” Palamar: What happened on “Azovstal” is a symbol of heroism

This is the story of a few months of struggle in inhumane conditions, sacrifice, Russian captivity, stay in Turkey, return to line, memory and unrestrained desire for revenge.

Part of this story is “viburnum”.

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Recently, its unit has expanded and has become the 1st Corps of the National Guard “Azov”. Military corps keep defense in the Donetsk region in several directions.

In his first interview “Ukrainian Truth” after 2022, Svyatoslav Palamar tells about the loss of brothers on “Azovstal”, difficult negotiations of Denis Prokopenko with the enemy, a solid deception of Russians, a single camera in “Lefortovo”, an unexpected meeting with Medvedchuk, and the Turkey.

Also read: “Island of Hope”. How did they come out and what is now with Azovstal defenders

Kalina also talks about the situation in the Pokrovsky direction, analyzes changes in the tactics of the enemy and the transformation of the Ukrainian army lately.

You have a short version of the conversation to read. You can find the extended version in the video format.

“In the Pokrovsky direction they have successfully advance – Let’s start with the current situation in the Pokrovsky direction where now is the 1st Corps of NSU “Azov“. How would you describe what’s going on there?

-If we talk about the operating area of ​​the 1st Corps of the National Guard “Azov”, then by the time we went there, that is, until August 4, the situation was quite critical. As you could even see on the Deepstate map, the enemy was moving there. We managed to improve the management and organization of troops, improve defense.

The problem of this direction is that it is now the main blow to the two armies of the enemy-the 51st and 8th.

They have no special problems with the replenishment of personnel. We break them, they come to recovery, then quickly replenish and go again.

But in general, the situation is much better than it was by the moment we went there.

During this period, the loss of the enemy is approximately as follows: more than 1600 two hundred, about 800 three hundred, 58 prisoners.

From the interesting thing – they recently took the captive from the birth of Zaporizhzhya region, a guy of 1997, who was forcibly mobilized into the army of our enemy. And it says a lot about the cynicality of our enemy.

– In your opinion, what conclusions can be drawn about the Ukrainian army during a full -scale war? Where are we strong and where do we still need to study?

– We are strong, you know what? Our people who are involved in hostilities and developing. It is important to mention the generation of young officers, young soldiers, sergeants who have been fighting a tremendous experience since 2014.

I still noted the technological component in which we are very strong.

Speaking of the enemy, it quickly adapts and scales. That’s where they get it. In a totalitarian state, this may be much faster.

– What is the weakness?

– (Thinks) I think in their motivation. She in them in money and in fear that they will be killed for failure to comply with the order.

– That is nothing changes?

– Well, I wouldn’t say so. In 2022, when we were captured by Russian officers and even ordinary soldiers, they believed that they were told on TV. That Ukraine needs to be saved that they go something to “get”. Now there are no such people.

– What are the captives you now remembered? Maybe someone surprised you?

– They are all the same. There is a difference in what they were at the beginning, because it was a rather professional army. But now, the vast majority is a leisure.

For example, if we talk in our direction, then we are fighting with us, apparently, 60% of people who are mobilized from temporarily occupied territories. And not only Donetsk, Lugansk, who for a long time under occupation, but, for example, the Zaporizhzhia region.

They are not very motivated. Much depends on who stands against them. For example, the offensive potential in our direction we knocked them down. They have lost the initiative on the battlefield and hear that their moral and psychological state is quite low.

Previously, they have successfully moved, now they get normally dragging. And as a consequence, we hear by intercepting that they are directly forced to storm. They refuse, they tell them that they are being shot, that they will be covered with mortars. They actually torture and kill their own. There is also a lot of videos on the Internet as they come with their own. It’s all true.

“When there was no Internet in Mariupol, we printed news on A4 and it kept people” – I want to talk about Mariupol. It so happened that I was never in Mariupol, but I hope to visit. Can tell you that it was for City by 2022?

– The city until 2019 and after – something else.

Before that, such an industrial city. This is not like Donetsk; It is still the Azov, so the mentality is different in humans than in Donetsk. But Mariupol was industrialized.

Later the changes began for the better. Parks, ports, squares, beach were built, benches were put, making good tracks. Theaters came, there was a festival of classical music near the Drama Theater. And when the city began to decorate, people also started to behave better. If there were cool playgrounds, it was less likely to meet drinks with a bottle of beer.

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– Do you mention The events of 2022? Does the memory want it to erase?

– The vast majority of tragic events are forgotten.

And now there are so many events that you do not have time to understand everything. Perhaps when the war is over, somehow memories will come more often. But now no.

We have a lot of responsibility. This is no longer responsibility for one team, but for the whole building, for different crews.

We have the situation that the operating area of ​​the corps includes only one staff brigade – it is “red viburnum”; And other brigades on another front. It is Toretsky, Kupyansky, Kharkiv directions. And everyone is worthy.

– Events on “Azovstal“: This is a tragedy, a symbol of heroism, or an unfinished struggle?

– This is a symbol of heroism.

Mariupol’s defense is a very important component of Ukraine’s defense as a whole in 2022. The boys and girls who fought there showed that they are ready to die, but not let the enemy move.

We understood that we would delay the advance of the enemy to other directions. Maybe if the enemy managed to capture Mariupol in shorter The term, all those armed forces would go to Zaporozhye, and there the situation would be much worse than the one that is now.

– What was the hardest thing for you on the Azovstal?

– Loss of brothers – it was the hardest (Takes a pause).

There were many wonderful things I would not think what it could be.

Everything you have acquired in life, it has gone into the background, you just are not interesting. The money you had in your pocket is not needed. But at the same time, when there was no Internet in Mariupol, we made information letters simply on the A4, where we informed about the situation in “Greater Ukraine”, described what was happening on the fronts, including in Mariupol. And those letters diverged like pies. When you were given the guys’ position – it was so important… (Exercises chooses words).

It raised the moral spirit. It was important because, for example, someone’s family was in Zaporozhye, someone was worried and what is there in Kiev and where what was happening in other cities.

I would never think that in the 21st century, the information printed on a regular leaf would be so valuable.

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– Please tell us more about Helicopter missions of the Main Directorate of Intelligence Ministry of Defense. I would like to remind the readers that they were transported by ammunition, food, medicines, and then the wounded from the plant was taken back. Remember how it happened?

– Those missions should be included in military history textbooks.

It is necessary to pay tribute to the army aviation, the General Directorate of Intelligence, other relevant units.

What is important to note? Delivery of weapons, NLAW – boys joined the Internet and studied online how to work on them. We did not receive Western equipment until 2022. And the boys studied directly on the move and quite effectively destroyed enemy equipment and their personnel.

Medicines were important because supplies actually saved hundreds of lives.

Plus we need to mention the replenishment of personnel – we were so landed by guys.

But most importantly, if it was dangerous to fly to Mariupol, it was even more dangerous to get back from it. And the boys who made the decision to fly are real heroes.

The evacuation of the wounded was also an important component. For example, Nikita Nesochiy, now deputy commander of the Corps on combat training.

In March 2022, he was a very difficult wound, he was evacuated. In the Dnieper, in the Hospital Mechnikov, Nikita was quickly treated, he stood on his feet and began to command the unit on the “big land”, until the defense of Mariupol continued. This is important.

“On” Azovstal “we wanted to cut to the end” – Let’s talk about getting out of Azovstal. In order to leave the plant, I had to have communication with the enemy. As Negotiations on the exit of “Azov” from the game of the Russian Federation?

– There were GRU and military command. The commander, a friend of Redis, communicated directly with them. I also know that there were representatives of our special services.

At that time there were many civilians at the plant, and I turned to the whole world about their evacuation.

Negotiations were about civilian and evacuation of the wounded, and it was also very important for us to pick up everyone killed in the battlefield.

The enemy understood that if he goes to it, we will say so, we will be released and maybe we would be seriously serious. And we wanted to say frankly. Therefore, the negotiations went.

The enemy realized that we would delay our strength. Directly captured by the Azovstal storm – these would be tremendous losses for them. Because the shelter system provided us with quite long defense.

On the other hand, the situation we had bad: food, wounded, the enemy tried to encourage us to end the defense.

Later, there was an order for the termination of defense, then the Redis with all the commanders of the units that were negotiated with representatives of the Russian Federation, where our requirements were announced.

There, in principle, standard things: normal adequate behavior against prisoners, adherence to the Geneva conventions, and so on. But it happened as it happened – you know this story.

– Is it true that in order for negotiations to take place, the Azovstal came arrived armored jeeps that took Redis And were taken to a special place in the occupied territory?

– One day, Redis went to negotiations at one of the occupied settlements at that time. This is true.

– When the enemy took your commander somewhere in an unknown place without weapons and security you were experiencing then?

– Honestly, it is difficult to realize what happened if he was killed or taken prisoner.

The whole personnel experienced. Everyone sat on the nerves. But Redis is a person weighted and quite cold -blooded in such difficult situations. And he understood all the risks. He made such a decision, and it was really important.

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– When the Redis went to the territory controlled by the enemy, was it discussed who would take command on himself?

– Bogdan Krotevich at that time was the chief of staff. If something happened to Redis, he would have accepted Mariupol’s defense, but at that time all the troops were in the territory of the Azovstal plant.

– That is, if with Redis, God forbid, then something happened, would you cut there to the end?

– But we wanted to cut to the end. Redis negotiated not about our delivery, but to evacuate the wounded to the “Big Land”. If it could be done, the situation would be different.

“In Lefortotovo we were really afraid” – Do you remember your last day at Azovstal? What did you do, what did you think about?

– It was the elimination of everything. The phone, other means of communication, all weapons, destroyed the things I had. And everyone else did the same.

We did everything in order not to leave the enemy. These are flash drives, information, everything that was paper – everything was destroyed. We were captured. And they could not hide anything there.

– According to the arrangementsAzovs should be all in one place together. It was to be Olenivka, where you personally spent four days. Remember how you were taken from Olenivka?

– How did it happen? We were already in the barrack, it was night. I hear: “Redis, to exit, for questioning”.

Then: “Svyatoslav Palamar, on Exit”. I am for questioning, 2-3 hours lead him. Later they bring, it was already dawn. And – to exit without things.

Then we are lined up. I remember the copter is going on, such a shooting is at the face level.

Then we took us into prisoners, heads, handcuffs. We were driving in that car, the heat was still scary. The road is long, I do not know how much time, but the impression that six hours. Then removed from the cars. The first went, the second, I only hear – oh …

– Beaten?

– Yes. But I think that if they wanted to execute, why are these all reverses with such a road? Then the bag on the head, adhesive tape, head down. And for a long time we are like that in movies about Guantanamo. And I hear the hum of the planes.

Then the stroke on the plane. I remember two things worried me. I thought: How did Gandalf in handcuffs? He does not have one hand. And then I think – what about Redis? He had a shoulder wounded – I To him?

We flew so all day – no water, nothing. But then we were treated into the car and brought to some prison. Where, where?

There was such a window in the chamber, there was only the sky visible. I thought to myself that the East is exactly because we flew for a long time, 4-5 hours – despite the fact that I was off, I came to my senses.

They dressed, face to the wall, gave a basin, flip flops, pants, jackets, pants and also all the bags, hands back and somewhere pulled into the chamber.

And, honestly, all this time did not go. Somewhere in a month, I was not touched at all. Where am I, what am I, what time I didn’t know. The window opens, they give some shock, the window closes. And all.

– What did you do all day?

– squeezed, squatted, sang. They came, they say, “shut up”.

– And what sang?

– “Red Viburnum”, “Lyubov, Brethren, Lyubov, Lyubov, Brethren, Live. With our chieftain there is no longing.” She is so emotional, loud, it helped me.

They gave a couple of times to read books. I remember that he was a “golden TV”, “Kills Harper Lee and” Karamazov “Dostoevsky’s brother.

And then they gave another shutter Russian, soaked in such propaganda “offices, Russian army” – brown.

I tasted, apparently, pages: once I read the book until they take away – I read again.

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– No access to news, no newspapers?

– When he returned to Ukraine after a period of time he met with a classy Ukrainian military and director Oleg Sentsov. And he also sat in Lefortovo and told that they were brought into the courtyard for a walk. I am as follows: “Wow, and there are yards, there was a walk?” (smiles).

No, the light is constantly burning, you see day and night in the window – somehow so. I took a spoon of ordinary and wrote it on the table, remembered something, repeated the multiplication plate.

Then he drew his strips to dental powder to know what day.

The Russians entered the chamber: “Face K Okon!”. And erased so I didn’t understand what time. Well, they were objectively afraid of us.

– What was this?

– in their behavior. They worried that we could stare something. And if there was such an opportunity, then they would be buzzing (smiles).

There was excessive caution, nothing left in the camera.

You know, they have this gulag system – it has been developed for years. The custom of the corridor is soft so that there are no steps.

Specific behavior, key rotation sounds – all directly to the little things.

“In Turkey we all lived in one house, we were guarded by Turkish special services” – Extraction. You remember how landed on Turkey territory?

– I was the first to leave the plane. I remember, Kirill Budanov was, the late Denis Monastyrsky, there was a military attaché, other people. I am accompanied by a “fast” car, I see – Medvedchuk.

– In “fast”?

– Yes. Medvedchuk also donates blood. I waited for him to donate blood, then went out.

– What to do blood?

– I am the first time in such a situation, I hope the last (Laughs) – I do not know. Blood was collected by the Turks.

I think that Turkish special services could worry that Russians may be poisoned by “newcomers”, other some coins that can be confirmed after a while.

– You mentioned Medvedchuk in the ambulance. Remember what you thought about when you saw him?

– Maybe it’s emotions. But I was really blowing in such a cold from him.

– If you had the opportunity in other circumstances without the control of special services and the rest to meet Medvedchuk, what would you do?

– I would have met him in court. I want such people to be judged.

We do not have to tolerate any handwriting. There is a law enforcement system for this.

I would like Putin to get under the tribunal. So that he is not killed somewhere there, though he may happen, and that he will finish his life in the camera. We want all citizens of Ukraine to see it and taste it.

– Where did you stay in Turkey all the time?

– They lived in one house where everyone was provided around the room. But I can’t say anything anymore.

– Who guarded you there?

– Turkish special services. Very cool guys. I loved them very much and loved Turkey. We had a translator. At the end, we even started learning Turkish a little.

– In what conditions did you live in Turkey?

– You cannot even compare with Lefortovo. There is a shower, you could wash normally. We made a minimal gym in the garage.

– Did you access each other continuously?

– Yes, of course. We met for breakfast, lunch, dinner, Turkish tea drank.

We talked, the walk was around the house once a week.

TV, had several Ukrainian channels and one or two Russian. We could compare what they say and what really happens.

– When the extraction took place, the news reported that you should be in Turkey until the end of the fighting. But in July 2023, the President came to Erdogan and took away all of you Presidential board to Ukraine. Do I understand that you could be returned to Ukraine at any time?

– I don’t know. I have enough order to the Supreme Commander.

I remember that the Minister of the Interior came the day before it. Representatives of the Security Service of Ukraine also came.

They talked and then said, “Guys, collect things.” Everyone realized that we were returning to Ukraine at last. What are our actions? Yes there is, and all.

They got on the plane to the President and flew to Poland, and from Poland to Lviv. There was a very cool and warm meeting.

– What happened on the plane?

– There were many people on board with whom I communicated with the phone during the Mariupol defense, and here I saw them all.

First of all, it was interesting to learn about international policy from the president, what is really happening, from the first mouth – not everyone has a chance. There were questions to the President, to Andriy Yermak, to the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

I remember, the President showed us a video how he planted on the island of Snake. We were amazed, and we were glad that the island under the control of Ukraine.

Obviously, the President asked and that families and that we, as we feel, what we plan to do, are we ready to work in the direction of defense and so on.

– Were there any requests from the President or his team to Redis so that after returning to Ukraine he would have as little publicity as possible?

– There were conversations about restrictions because of the security aspect.

That is, we were instructing the SBU representatives on behavior in Ukraine, because who knows that the Russian special services will be wondered.

– Was it difficult to return to the system after captivity?

– Honestly, it is not difficult at all. We did not have any other plans – everything, we return to the unit, build, work. Bulk work, we have many new people we do not know.

I asked for a day, came to my parents, I was accompanied by security service representatives. Then on the same day went to D Ruzhins, and then returned to Kyiv.

Everything went and so to this day.

Roman Kravets, UP

Video: Andriy Kovzh, Vladislav Pylypenko, Nazariy Maziluk