Political scientist Eugene Magda about what relations between Ukraine and Poland under President Karol Navrotsky will be will be

Photo: FB Karol Nawrocki

On August 6, the inauguration of the new President of Poland Karol Navrotsky will take place. During the election campaign, his rhetoric against Ukraine was quite rigid. Therefore, now that he finally receives the presidential power, it is important to understand which policy he will follow about our country in the future. The journalist was about it Briefly about learned in political expert and director of the Institute of World Policy Yevgeny Magdy.

Our country is now for Navrotsky – unknown Earth – The previous President of Poland Andrzej Duda was in power for 10 years. What did he do for Ukraine? What should we remember?

– Yes, he really made many useful steps for Ukraine when he was President of Poland. And most importantly, it is that he saw Polish interest in support of Ukraine. And this, in my opinion, is the best formula when the president of a foreign state sees the interest of his country in support of Ukraine. We do not have to live in the illusions that only pro -Ukrainian politicians live around us.

Director of the Institute of World Policy Eugene Magda. Photo: FB Eugene Magda

– About Karol Navrotsky is already said that he is not anti -Ukrainian and not pro -Ukrainian at the same time. And what is he?

– It’s just what I was talking about before. We should not treat our partners by the simplified formula – “for” or “against” us. And we must do so that the leaders of foreign states see in support and promotion of Ukraine interest in their countries and interest in their fellow-citizens.

Karol Navrotsky was only in Ukraine once, so I think that our country is now Terra Incognita – an unknown land. And he will form his position on us as president. But this should not create the illusions that we will have any relationship in the format of “pink clouds”. This will not be. Therefore, we must create a pragmatic agenda and cooperate with Poland in this way.

– Navrotsky himself was the head of the Polish Institute of National Memory. Will he continue the unfriendly policy of the Law and Justice Party on historical issues?

– It is naive to hope that the person who became president with the support of the right forces will give up an important component of historical memory for a large part of the Poles. It is impossible today. We need to be aware that it is important for us today to continue the dialogue that has recently begun on the exhumation of the remains of the dead Poles in Ukraine in the 1940s, in the search for a common language. Because in Polish society, the issue of “Volyn tragedy” exists and is discussed for a longer time, and it is more sensitive than in Ukraine. This should be taken into account and you need to work on this. That is, the fact that Ukraine has granted the exhumation of the victims of Volyn is a step towards confidence.

Poland will not be a stumbling block on the path of Ukraine to NATO and the EU – During the elections, Navrotsky made a rather sharp statement about Ukraine, for example, that it should not join NATO and the EU. Will he seek this and the post of President of Poland?

– This will depend solely on the positions of other NATO leaders and the European Union. Navrotsky just said it more frankly than other Western politicians. What is continuing in a war with Russia, we do not have the opportunity to join these international organizations. But believe that a stumbling block in this matter will be far from Poland, but other countries.

– In Poland, as in Europe, there is now an increase in the popularity of far -right forces. In the second round of Navrotsky, the Polish far -right was supported – the Confederation and the Grzegozha Brown’s voters. Will he pursue their policy?

– I think that one of Karol Navrotsky’s priorities as the president will be the change of the prime minister and the creation of a new ruling coalition in the Polish Seimas. And the Confederation will participate in this. And when we talk about her leader Slavomir Menzen, we must understand not only his active and offensive political position on many issues, but also that one in three of his voter is a person under 30 years. That is, he relied on young people, and this rate was objectively played.

– It is said that every president fights for his electorate during the election, and afterwards – for those who did not support him. Will it do so Navrotsky?

-In Poland, there is now a situation that is called Duopol: it is a confrontation of the two largest parties-“Right and Justice” and “Civic Platform” Prime Minister Donald Tusk. That is, they have a significant polarization of society today and a significant request for new politicians. And so we, accordingly, have to consider it. We have approximately 2 million Ukrainians in Poland, of which Poland’s passports have 50,000 people. That is, our refugees, our migrants are a factor in Polish policy. And we have to create levers in order to bring it to the Polish establishment as a whole – both to the right, to the centrists and to the left.

Navrotsky will not become like Fitzo or Orban – Poland is now between two lights – Russia and Europe. How will Karol Navrotsky build a policy on Moscow and Brussels?

– Navrotsky was wanted in Russia, and this is already said. But here it is necessary to understand that he is not a member of the Law and Justice Party, this political force only supported it. And that was one of the secrets of his success in the elections. Navrotsky was very successful in the Polish archetype. On his election posters, he showed that he could hit Poland as a boxer (Navrotsky himself was doing boxing). Therefore, this image will continue to be exploited. And how it will be realized – we will see.

– Will Navrotsky a politician like odious Orban and Fitzo for Europe and Ukraine?

– No, I don’t think. I do not see such features, but we need to understand that every politician is influenced by certain circumstances and national interests. And so, accordingly, we must act in order to create its special interest for Poland. That is, conditionally, the topic of “Volyn” will still exist in Polish-Ukrainian relations, but it depends on us what else There will be topics and how intense they will appear. In fact, we have a much wider agenda than just discussing historical memory issues, where Poland has a significant advantage.

– For example, what is the question?

-military-technical cooperation, joint production of weapons, transit of Ukrainian experience in hostilities, because Poland wants to create the largest army in the European Union. We can help the Poles with this. In addition, we can successfully cooperate in the continuation of the transit of the Polish experience in the municipal sphere, energy cooperation, in the promotion of Ukrainian grain in the markets of the global south. And in fact, there are many such topics.

Poland will remain the biggest hub for weapons supply to Ukraine – Poland has purchased a lot of tanks in South Korea, does it mean that it really is preparing for a conflict with Russia?

– Indeed, after this contract, it will have more tanks than France, Britain, Germany combined. This means that Warsaw is preparing substantially and re -reprimands its army.

– Poland is a parliamentary republic, and the real power belongs to the opponent of Karol Navrotsky-the Prime Minister and the nominee from the pro-European party “Civic Platform”. Is there any contradictions between them?

– The Law and Justice Party will try to achieve the resignation of the current Prime Minister Donald Tusk, because there are many contradictions between them. And I think that in the fall, and latest – in the winter during the budget process in Poland, we will see it. There will be an attempt to reformat the power coalition that chooses the premiere. The President cannot appoint the head of government, but the features of Polish legislation are such that the president may be blackmailed by the dissolution of parliament under certain conditions. And I think Karol Navrotsky will use it.

– Is it worth expecting a conflict between it and the tush and in what forms?

– This conflict was reflected during the presidential campaign. Only Donald Tusk was a candidate from the pro -European forces Rafal Tshaskovsky. And so, this conflict did not go anywhere. That is the same Duopol – the confrontation between the right “PAS” and the pro -European “civic platform”.

– Do you think Poland will continue to remain the largest hub for the supply of weapons to Ukraine?

– Yes, I think it will continue, because the high defense capability of Ukraine is just an element of the national interest of Poland.

Source: kp.ua